A more useful conservative commentary on guns

David Frum is one of the more stable of the people on the right:


Not one of the types who thinks that cogent arguments threaten democracy and the constitution.

He points out some of the holes in the right wing arguments about gun violence, particularly the offensive recent one that guns are only a black problem.

Well, there are around 30,000 gun deaths per year in the US, slightly more than half suicides.

If 80% of the suicides are white males as Mr. Frum indicates, that is a very interesting statistic.  It would also be interesting to look at the number of remaining suicides to see how many are white females.   Also the accidental death statistics are important.

Blacks may be six times as likely to be victims and seven times as likely to be shooters, but as they are only 12% of the population it means that they are around half the victims and slightly more than half the shooters.

Kick in the suicide and other statistics and that is probably still over 20,000 whites killed by guns per year in the US.

Nutter Ann Clouter claims the rate for white americans is the same as the rate for Belgium.

Here are some stats, apparently from Belgium:


That’s 315 total deaths for firearms in 2005. 46 of these were gun homicides.  Interestingly, only 2 of those homicides were by handguns.  The rate of handgun homicides per 100,000 people was .02, although this may be because the type of gun was unspecified in collecting many stats.

The number of firearm suicides in 2005 was 240. 13 of these were by handgun.

They have dramatically reduced gun homicides in the past 20 years or so.

In Belgium, possession of handguns is heavily regulated or was in 2005.  Hence the low stats for handguns there vs. handguns causing 75% of gun deaths in the US.

Private owners owned about 17.2 guns per 100 people in Belgium.

Belgium still has it’s problems:


Note the quote from the socialist premier:

“The government “is ready to take considered measures with real effect on the ground, but will avoid a precipitate response driven by emotion that would have no concrete effect.” Di Rupo added.”

Avoid an emotional response that will have no concrete effect.  Why don’t American politicians talk like that?  We should trade the Belgians Pelosi, McConnell, a few others and three first round draft picks to Belgium for Di Rupo.  I don’t think they would take it.

Boehner has the worst job in the world and unsalvageable position so I’ll avoid the cheap shot there.

Belgium has around 11 million people.


In 2011 the US had 32,163 deaths by gun.

Of these, 11,101 were homicides.

The US has about 28 times as many people as Belgium and 241 times as many gun homicides.  Lets say if you take half those numbers as black homicides.

US whites are about 20 times the population of Belgium.

If they have 120 times the rate of gun homicides that is still a rate 6 times higher, not the same rate.

In 2011 there were 19,766 gun suicides in the US.  That is 82 times as many as Belgium, more than double the gun suicide rate.

Belgium is one of the more permissive countries with respect to guns.

Even if you are a racist like Ann Coulter and only think the white deaths count, if we had the same gun homicide and suicide rates as Belgium among whites that would save over 10,000 whites per year.  That’s close to 30 per day.

That’s compared to a “wild west” permissive gun culture in Belgium.


In the UK that’s 138 gun deaths per year, 18 homicides and 101 suicides, for a nation of 63 million people.

In 2012, Chicago had over 500 gun murders and New York had 237.  Most major cities and all major metropolitan areas in the US have more homicides than all of Britain.

How can people not see this is nuts?


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